Ryan Holiday interviews William O. Stevens, a philosophy professor emeritus at Creighton University who has taught Marcus Aurelius for over 30 years. Stevens is the author of Marcus Aurelius Philosopher King, Marcus Aurelius A Guide for the Perplexed, and Stoic Ethics, among other works on Stoicism.

The conversation centers on Stevens' controversial argument that Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations should be retitled 'Memoranda,' since Marcus Aurelius never gave his private writings a title. Stevens challenges the conventional view of Marcus as either villain or hero, arguing instead that he was 'a good man' with human flaws.

They explore translation differences, the historical context of the work's preservation, and Marcus's complex legacy as both philosopher and emperor. The discussion touches on comparisons to modern figures like Jimmy Carter and examines whether philosophical temperament suits political power.

The Case Against 'Meditations' as a Title

Stevens argues Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations is a misleading title since Marcus Aurelius never named his work - the earliest Greek manuscripts had no title attached

Different translators over centuries chose various titles: 'Reflections,' 'To Himself,' 'Thoughts of Marcus Aurelius' - the current title is just 'historical accretion'

'Memoranda' better captures the content since memory is a persistent theme throughout all 12 books - how Marcus will be remembered and Stoic doctrines he needs to remember daily

The title Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations creates wrong expectations, suggesting 'transcendental meditation' or 'Eastern vibe' rather than the practical philosophy Marcus was actually practicing

When philosophers hear 'Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations,' they think of refref-book-refref-book-refref-book-refref-book-meditationsMeditationsrefref-book-meditationsMeditations-on-first-philosophyrefref-book-refref-book-meditationsMeditationsrefref-book-meditationsMeditations-on-first-philosophyrefref-book-refref-book-refref-book-meditationsMeditationsrefref-book-meditationsMeditations-on-first-philosophyrefref-book-refref-book-meditationsMeditationsrefref-book-meditationsMeditations on First Philosophy by René Descartes, not Marcus Aurelius's work

Translation Wars and Textual Authenticity

Stevens reveals that Gregory Hayes's popular translation is 'not true to the Greek,' preferring Waterfield and Farquharson translations for accuracy

Hayes writes 'with poetry' and keeps Marcus 'telegrammatic' but lacks the philosophical depth of classicist translators who know Greek idioms

Stevens owns more translations of Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations-on-first-philosophy:Meditations than any other ancient text, including Plato's works, showing the enduring appeal for retranslation

Holiday compares the translation variety to Joan Didion's Notes to John, noting how exceptional writers 'cannot write poorly' even in private notes

Marcus Aurelius: Good Man, Not Great Man

Stevens argues Marcus was 'a good man' but not a sage - 'there are no sages' including Epictetus and Seneca

Marcus had significant flaws: Christians were brutally executed during his reign, he admitted being glad he didn't sexually abuse slaves, and he appointed the disastrous Commodus as successor

The Avidius Cassius revolt likely influenced Marcus's decision to keep succession within the family - 'if you can't trust your most competent general, who are you going to pick?'

Holiday compares Marcus to Jimmy Carter - both good men whose decency may have hampered their effectiveness as leaders in ruthless political environments

Despite his power, Marcus showed mercy to enemies: he refused to see Avidius Cassius's severed head and preferred exile over execution for political opponents

The Philosopher King Problem

Stevens questions whether philosophical temperament suits political power, noting that Cato was also 'a pretty mediocre politician'

Marcus faced the challenge of remaining humane while dealing with ruthless people - 'don't become like your enemy' while maintaining strength

Stoic doctrine holds that 'people do bad things believing it's good and right' - all moral failing results from ignorance, not malice

Marcus humanized gladiatorial games by having 'buttons put on swords' so gladiators wouldn't suffer the most grievous wounds