Documentary filmmaker Ken Burns joins California Governor Gavin Newsom to discuss his latest PBS series on the American Revolution, released for the 250th anniversary. Burns, with nearly 50 years of filmmaking experience, has created over 40 documentaries and recently completed a 10-year project examining America's founding.

The conversation explores how Burns promotes his work across diverse media platforms, from Joe Rogan to traditional PBS, maintaining consistent messaging about complex historical truths. They discuss the parallels between revolutionary-era divisions and contemporary political polarization, with Burns arguing that current divisions, while serious, pale compared to the Civil War or Revolutionary periods.

Burns emphasizes how Animal Farm and Orwellian themes illuminate current threats to democratic institutions, while advocating for active citizenship over passive consumption of political narratives. The discussion covers everything from the technological evolution of filmmaking to the fundamental contradictions embedded in America's founding documents.

From Razor Blades to 4 Billion Streaming Minutes

Burns describes his evolution from analog film editing with "razor blades, cutting film and taping them together" to reaching PBS's first-ever top 10 streaming position with the American Revolution series.

The series accumulated 18 million traditional broadcast viewers by year-end 2023, plus 565 million streaming minutes by November, eventually reaching over 4 billion minutes.

"Mark Twain said, if you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. So I said the same thing to Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughan as I said to The New York Times" - Burns on consistent messaging across platforms.

Revolutionary Violence and Civil War Reality

"We were born in violence" - Burns emphasizes the Revolution was actually a civil war, not the "gallant and bloodless" version often portrayed in popular history.

Only about 20% of Americans supported the Revolution overall, though support varied dramatically by region, with neighbors fighting neighbors over fundamentally different visions of government.

Loyalists "believed quite correctly that the British constitutional monarchy is a hell of a good form of government" and saw prosperity, literacy, and life expectancy tied to British rule.

The war featured brutal guerrilla warfare, particularly in New Jersey and South Carolina, where "it's patriots killing loyalists and loyalists killing patriots."

Washington's Contradictions and Leadership

George Washington "owns five hundred and seventy seven human beings in his lifetime" while fighting for freedom - "you can't square that circle" according to writer Rick Atkinson.

Despite owning slaves and making tactical mistakes, Washington "twice gives up power" - military power after victory and presidential power after two terms, setting crucial precedents.

A German-language newspaper in Lancaster, Pennsylvania called Washington "deslond de Slater" (the Country's father) in spring 1778, recognizing his centrality to the cause's survival.

"If he's killed or captured, it's all over" - Burns on how Washington's personal survival determined the Revolution's fate, yet he recklessly exposed himself in battle.

The Orwellian Present and Democratic Threats

Burns references Animal Farm directly: "some animals are more equal than others" represents the "slippery slope" away from democratic equality toward authoritarianism.

"We've just witnessed the end of DEI. But you know, isn't e pluribus unum DEI?" - Burns connects diversity initiatives to America's founding motto of unity from many.

The founders "would be so shocked" that Congress has "yielded so much out of fear" including constitutional powers over taxation and tariffs to the executive branch.

"We live in a place right now where it actually pays to promote division" - Burns identifies financial incentives driving political polarization in media and politics.

Story Over Argument in Changing Minds

"The best arguments in the world won't change a single person's point of view. The only thing that can do that is a good story" - novelist Richard Powers quoted by Burns.

Burns maintains identical messaging from "Joe Rogan to inner city kids in Charleston and Detroit and suburban kids in Chicago" because compelling stories transcend political divisions.

"There's no them, there's only us" - Burns argues that creating "them" categories serves agendas incompatible with pluralistic democracy.

Stories serve as "benign trojan horses" that don't "come out in the middle of the night and slay the populace" but offer complexity beyond binary thinking.

Active Citizenship and Future Projects

"In a democracy, the most important office is office of citizen" - Burns quotes Brandeis on individual responsibility in democratic governance.

Burns advocates for "righteous re-engagement with the principles of our founding" rather than nostalgia: "You're not making America great again. You're making America great going forward."

Upcoming projects include LBJ and the Great Society, a reconstruction film "Emancipation to Exodus," eight interviews with Barack Obama, a Martin Luther King biography, and a CIA history.

"If I were given a thousand years to live, I would not run out of topics in American history" - Burns on his continued passion for storytelling at age 72.