The episode features Joe Rogan with bow hunters Cam Hanes and Adam Greentree, discussing mountain lion management, wildlife conservation, and the ethics of hunting technology.

Adam shares the story of shooting a mountain lion in Colorado that was actively eating a live cow, illustrating the brutal reality of predator behavior and the necessity of population control.

The conversation explores California's mountain lion problem, where depredation permits kill similar numbers to what hunting would achieve, but without generating conservation revenue.

They examine Japan's brown bear crisis, comparing it to Western wildlife management approaches and discussing how hunting bans lead to dangerous population explosions.

The group discusses technological advances in bow hunting equipment, from rangefinders to thermal optics, debating where to draw the line between effective hunting and maintaining traditional challenges.

Jelly Roll's remarkable transformation through hunting and fitness serves as a recurring theme, demonstrating how outdoor pursuits can fundamentally change lives.

The discussion covers voluntary struggle, mental health, and how primitive human activities like hunting provide psychological benefits that modern life cannot replicate.

Mountain Lion Management and California's Wildlife Crisis

Adam describes shooting a mountain lion in Colorado that was actively eating a live cow from its rear while the cow remained conscious and screaming. "The cow couldn't move but was still fully alive internally and vocally, and the mountain lion was eating it from its rear in" - Adam

The mountain lion Adam killed weighed approximately 170 pounds live weight, representing a significant predator capable of killing livestock and deer regularly

California issued 222 depredation permits in 2024, with 52 authorized for lethal take and 20 mountain lions actually killed through these permits, not including agency control kills

"In San Francisco, they've done an analysis of mountain lion diet - it's 50% dogs and cats" - Joe, explaining how urban mountain lions prey on pets

Oregon allows year-round mountain lion harvest with just a valid hunting license, no separate cougar tag required, with mandatory check-in within 48 hours

Utah changed mountain lion regulations to allow hunting similar to coyotes, requiring only a hunting license without a separate tag, demonstrating effective management

"If they had given tags out and let people mountain lion hunt in California, you would have the exact same amount of mountain lions killed, and instead of that, you would have revenue" - Joe

Japan's Brown Bear Crisis and Global Predator Problems

Japan experienced a record surge of brown bear attacks in 2025 with at least 13 fatalities and over 200 injuries, making it the deadliest year for bear attacks in recent history

Japanese military has been deployed to deal with brown bear populations, with over 1,000 bears killed in recent years due to lack of hunting infrastructure

"The reason why they have to deploy the military is because all the hunters are aging out - there's not enough hunters, so they have to get the military involved" - Cam

Adam discovered brown bears in Hokkaido, Japan while hunting sika deer, finding massive bear prints in mud and later learning about fatal attacks where bears held victims underwater while eating them

British Columbia outlawed grizzly hunting, leading to out-of-control populations, demonstrating how urban voters who don't experience wilderness make decisions affecting rural communities

"People living in cities don't know what's going on in the wilderness, so they vote 'I love lions, I love grizzly bears, I love wolves' - meanwhile people in the mountains are dealing with this shit" - Joe

Thermal Optics Ban and Hunting Technology Ethics

Thermal imaging devices are banned for hunting in Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, and Tennessee as of 2025

"Thermal optics are not good for hunting - you don't have to be good at anything, you just put them up and it tells you where the animal is like Predator" - Cam

States like Texas, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, and Missouri allow thermal devices specifically for predator or invasive species hunts like hogs and coyotes

"What would take hours to glass and you'd probably miss a bedded mule deer buck, with thermals it takes five minutes and you know where every animal is on that hill" - Cam

Cam argues thermal optics eliminate the art of glassing and allow hunters to find trophy animals in their safest beds where they've survived for years by being invisible

The technology debate mirrors e-bike regulations - it's so new that many states haven't established clear rules yet, creating a regulatory gray area

Garmin Rangefinding Sight Controversy in Utah

Utah banned the Garmin rangefinding bow sight, deciding it crossed the line of keeping archery primitive despite allowing other technological advances

"When it worked perfect, you get a clear screen with a red dot - no pins, no wires, no nothing, and if an elk moves from 50 to 80 yards you just press a button and instantly get a new range" - Joe

Joe experienced reliability issues with his second Garmin sight, where it sometimes wouldn't range at full draw despite pressing the button multiple times

"I think it's ignorant because all it's doing is rangefinding either way - you're still dialing to 50 yards and executing the shot, this way you're just doing it at full draw" - Joe

The debate centers on where to draw the line between technological advancement and maintaining the primitive challenge that defines archery hunting

"We want to honor archery and the history of archery - yes there's been advancements, but it's a moving target on where the line is to keep it primitive" - Cam

Evolution of Bow Hunting Technology and Equipment

The first mechanical release was invented by Stanislavski in 1964, with the Fletcher release becoming popular in 1971 at $5.95, revolutionizing archery accuracy

Cam started bow hunting with no rangefinders, no peep sights, no fixed sights, shooting fingers with a compound bow using a three-tab glove

"We used to practice shooting between trees, over cars at 60 yards, figuring out the arc of the arrow - at 30 yards the arrow has to go 10 yards up to come down at 60" - Cam

Early rangefinders from Bushnell were inaccurate, using image alignment to estimate distance, described as "like an eight-track tape" in size and functionality

"A sight you buy today for $25 is so superior to anything that existed in 1990" - discussion on podcast, highlighting rapid equipment advancement

Leupold FullDraw 5 rangefinder shows the arc of the arrow at its peak height, allowing hunters to determine if branches will interfere with shot trajectory

Modern equipment like Sitka gear with built-in knee pads and non-restrictive fabrics has transformed comfort and effectiveness in the field compared to older gear

Lighted Nocks Debate and Arrow Accuracy

Cam decided to stop using lighted nocks after realizing the additional 10 grains of weight at the arrow's end negatively impacts accuracy

"The weight is one part, but it's also the inconsistency of having electronics back there - you have a hole in the center with electronics, a light bulb, and a battery" - Cam

Lighted nocks may help determine shot placement and recovery strategy, but they don't make the shot more lethal or accurate - they sacrifice accuracy for visibility

Cam shoots X10 arrows at $50 each because they're the straightest, most accurate arrows used in Olympics since 1996, prioritizing accuracy above all else

"All I care about is that arrow going where I want it to go - knowing where the arrow hit isn't making it any more deadly" - Cam on prioritizing accuracy

The group acknowledges lighted nocks have specific use cases like Arctic hunting with no sunlight or hunting pigs in dark bedding areas under trees

Voluntary Struggle and Mental Health Benefits

"If you voluntarily struggle, then you get this beautiful feeling when it's over - instead you're getting the same amount of struggle in weird little slow doses all day long" - Joe

Joe argues most people experience constant low-grade suffering through anxiety and depression rather than intense voluntary challenges followed by relief and accomplishment

"The first steps are the hardest - it's so hard to get going, but once you get going you operate on momentum and it becomes so much easier" - Joe

Cam describes hunting as providing purpose and respect in his small town community, where killing a big buck meant something and earned genuine respect from others

"For men, respect is such an important thing - hunting was a way to earn respect from the community, and that's what men want whether they admit it or not" - Cam

The Cal Halliday pack-out story exemplifies masculine purpose - eight men carrying 300+ pounds of elk meat through wilderness, representing "the greatest day" of the season

"That was real - all this other shit, I don't know what this is, but that was fucking real" - Cam on the pack-out experience versus modern life

Israel Adesanya's Post-Fight Speech and Happiness

After knocking out Alex Pereira who had beaten him three times previously, Adesanya delivered what Joe calls "the greatest post-fight speech of all time"

"I hope all of you can feel how happy I am just one time in your life - but you will never feel this level of happiness if you don't go for something in your own life" - Adesanya

"When they knock you down, when they try and on you, if you stay down you will never get that resolve - fortify your mind and feel this level of happiness" - Adesanya

Cam compares Adesanya's happiness in front of millions to his own happiness in a tent after killing a bull elk with close friends, suggesting they're equally powerful but different

"The difference between Israel's happiness and this happiness - one's in front of a huge crowd, millions watching, and I guarantee just as happy or happier right there in that tent" - Joe

The discussion explores different types of happiness - sustained contentment from hunting versus intense momentary achievement in competition, both requiring extreme challenge

Jelly Roll's Transformation Through Hunting

Jelly Roll transformed from 540 pounds to running 10K races and 2.6 miles on treadmill while talking and joking, representing a complete life change

"He was trapped and couldn't get up - he laid on his arm in bed and didn't have the strength to get out of that position because he was so big, thought he was going to die" - Joe

Jelly Roll started by calling walks his "runs" even though he couldn't run a single step, using mindset and self-talk to build toward actual running

"He's the most important figure for inspiring millions of people to live better lives because he came from worse shape than anybody - if he's doing it, everyone can do it" - Joe

At the Grand Ole Opry, Jelly Roll asked Craig Morgan "Can I get a hug?" showing vulnerability and the importance of men expressing emotion and seeking connection

Jelly Roll learned about holding his bladder during long blind sits, nearly pissing his pants before making a hole in the blind to pee and cover it up

"This might be one of the best modern day stories of a person changing their life - what he's done to his mind which we may never know is really incredible" - Adam

Primitive Man, Modern Life, and Human Design

"The fake life is what we think of as real life - we're made to live in a society that's not by mine or your design, and I always feel out of it because it's not for me" - Cam

Joe argues exercise is critical for mental health because it provides the physical exertion human bodies require, though it's not a complete substitute for natural living

"Your body's literally designed to have to move and complete tasks in order to survive - that's normal, but we're moving into this abnormal way and everyone's crazy" - Joe

A man living in the Arctic since the 1970s, featured in Vice Guide to Travel, saw 9/11 in a photograph a year after it happened, illustrating complete disconnection from modern society

"This is how people are supposed to live - when you live like this you're very fulfilled and it feels normal, whereas most people don't feel normal" - Arctic resident quoted by Joe

Adam describes feeling himself "slipping" mentally when returning to the city, losing the mental clarity and health gained from time in nature

"Catching a fish, bow hunting, killing an animal, cooking it over a fire with your boys - that feeling is built in us, it's inside of us, times a thousand" - Cam

Altitude Training and Hypoxic Conditioning

Adam installed a hypoxic conditioning system in his home gym that simulates 14,500 feet altitude by pumping nitrogen to reduce oxygen levels

"I can shoot my bow in there at 14,500 feet, and when I step out at sea level I feel absolutely incredible" - Adam on his training setup

Training at 14,500 feet prepared Adam for hunting at 7,000-9,000 feet in Utah, allowing him to go from bottom to top of mountains without stopping to breathe

"I found mentally I felt a lot better too - the plasticity of the brain improves under those conditions, and I'd wake up on a high for four or five hours" - Adam

Altitude training creates more red blood cells naturally, similar to what EPO does artificially, though the effect only lasts a couple weeks after returning to lower elevation

The Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs was strategically placed at altitude to give athletes this natural advantage through consistent high-elevation training

Leonix company now makes integrated rooms with red light therapy, sauna, and hypoxic conditioning all in one space for comprehensive wellness training

FDA Approval Issues and Pharmaceutical Corruption

16% of FDA-approved drugs from 1980-2021 were discontinued, with 2.9% withdrawn specifically for safety reasons out of 1,310 total approvals

Antibiotics face 41% withdrawal rates and oncology drugs 23%, showing particularly high failure rates in critical medication categories

"Something like 30% of all medications that get approved by the FDA get pulled - that doesn't mean shit to me, I might not want to take it if it is FDA approved" - Cam

A lawyer explained pharmaceutical companies run 10 tests showing no efficacy, then rig one test to show minimal statistical significance and push that for profit

Vioxx case revealed emails between pharmaceutical companies discussing problems the drug would cause, but concluding "we think we will do well with this" financially

"A lot of these motherfuckers go from working at the FDA to cushy jobs in major corporations - they have this golden parachute set" - Joe on regulatory capture

The Atlantic magazine published "if you're unvaccinated it might be time to make your end of life will" then years later "COVID vaccines may cause heart damage"

Stem Cells, BPC-157, and Medical Innovation

Joe confronted a doctor who dismissed BPC-157, pointing out there are peer-reviewed studies showing clear pathways for how it works in soft tissue recovery

"BPC-157 naturally exists in the human body and you can enhance your body's ability to recover from soft tissue injuries - the idea this is horseshit, no, you're horseshit" - Joe

Many doctors resist stem cell and peptide therapies because they want to be the authority with all information, feeling threatened by new treatment modalities

Neil Riordan has written many papers on stem cells with documented efficacy on neurological conditions, providing scientific backing beyond anecdotal evidence

The UFC partnered with CPI in Mexico for stem cell treatments because they're not readily available in the United States due to regulatory restrictions

Brigham at Ways to Well is working to make stem cell and peptide therapies available in the United States, fighting against pharmaceutical industry resistance

"These treatments interfere with people who want to sell you pain pills - unfortunately that's where they make their money, and that's a real thing" - Joe

Long-Range Shooting and Extreme Marksmanship

The world record confirmed long-range shot is 4.4 miles (7,744 yards) achieved in Wyoming in 2022 by a team after dozens of attempts

A previous world record was set in 2018 at 2.4 miles before being surpassed by the 4.4-mile shot four years later

Tanner showed Adam a video of a shooter so skilled he fired, racked another round, and sent a second bullet before the first hit steel at extreme distance

Long-range rifles for these distances are extremely heavy, estimated at 30-40 pounds, with massive barrels that look "like a longbow that just needs a string on it"

"The problem is guys see 4.4 miles and think 'oh I could shoot at a thousand yards' with their $250 rifle from Buy Mart" - Cam on dangerous overconfidence

Long-range shooting requires accounting for wind across canyons, bullet drop, and maintaining perfect stillness - "a whole art form" according to the group

Personal Lessons from 2024 Hunting Season

Joe learned leg conditioning is the most important factor in elk hunting success: "No matter what I did, I needed to do more - you can never be in too good a shape"

Joe developed lower back tendonitis from pulling an 80-pound bow hundreds of times, learning the importance of not walking through pain and seeking proper treatment

Latest round of stem cells at Ways to Well provided real improvement to Joe's problematic left knee, allowing him to protect it while building conditioning

Adam's biggest lesson was about health: "Being physically healthy makes it a lot easier to be mentally healthy" after prioritizing fitness and clean eating

Hypoxic training allowed Adam to climb mountains from bottom to top without breaks, making hunting "a lot more enjoyable" and improving decision-making in the field

"When we're fatigued we make poor decisions - fatigue makes cowards of us all - being at a higher level physically allows you to hunt better" - Cam on fitness importance

Cam learned he enjoys the success of others most: "Sharing our lifestyle with others on hunts gives me so much strength and purpose - that's what drives me"