The episode features Ravora, an independent journalist and podcaster based in Vancouver, in conversation with Aubrey Marcus, described as a visionary podcaster, thinker, philosopher, and poet. Marcus is the co-founder of Onnit (now leading Correct Life supplements) and author of an upcoming book titled You versus Anti-U.

The discussion was prompted by the assassination of Charlie Kirk, a conservative political commentator, podcaster, and founder of Turning Point USA. Ravora sought to explore not just the political ramifications but the deeper cultural, moral, and spiritual dimensions of political violence in 2025.

Marcus is known for his work on psychedelics, plant medicine, mental health, and unifying polarities across political and spiritual divides. The conversation examines how society can transcend tribalism through shared values, the dangers of dehumanization through labeling, and the possibility of redemption even for those who celebrate violence.

Topics include the role of social media in desensitizing people to suffering, the difference between anti-value forces and human beings, perennial philosophy across religious traditions, the limits of dogma, and practical approaches to healing through breathwork and community.

The Shock of Political Violence in 2025

Ravora describes feeling that the Charlie Kirk assassination "doesn't feel like something that would happen in 2025" - expecting humanity to have evolved beyond this kind of tribalism and barbaric political violence, especially in the free Western world.

The assassination followed two previous assassination attempts on President Trump, revealing a pattern of boiling hatred and political extremism that feels "archaic, stone age, and primal" rather than characteristic of an evolved society.

"We've been lulled into a false sense of security and safety because for most of us, most of the time, everything just goes on as normal" - Marcus. He notes this is one of the few generations with enough safety that such violence comes as a shock.

Marcus warns we may be "entering into a time of increased turbulence and chaos" requiring different levels of situational awareness, recognizing that the comfort and security once felt may need to be fought for to maintain.

Dehumanization Through Labeling and Naming

"When you name me, you negate me" - Søren Kierkegaard. Marcus explains this process of labeling removes people from their God-given names and replaces them with associations like "right-wing fascist, Nazi, racist."

Dehumanization has been a precursor to every major war, slavery, and genocide in recorded history - calling people "rats," "cockroaches," or "sheep" to justify mistreatment and violence against entire classes of people.

"Charlie Kirk was a husband, a father - he kissed his wife goodnight, kissed his kids goodnight, read them bedtime stories, then woke up and went out to do what he thought was best" - Marcus emphasizing Kirk's full humanity beyond political labels.

The analogy of eating animals: "If you eat an animal that you've named, like Dolly the sheep, that's fucked up. But if we're just eating mutton, we're just eating meat" - showing how naming creates personhood that prevents consumption.

Social media and online discourse accentuate this dehumanization by flattening people into political representations rather than allowing human connection through in-person meetings, handshakes, dinners, and conversations.

Encouraging Signs of Awakening After Tragedy

Marcus saw "really encouraging things" including posts from Ian Carroll, who had previously ridiculed Charlie Kirk but wrote: "I meet people all the time on the vast other side of what I believe, and almost without exception, I finish that encounter and I like them."

Cenk Uygur and Ana Kasparian of The Young Turks, Ezra Klein from the New York Times, and President Biden's team all condemned the assassination, emphasizing shared humanity - signs of leadership recognizing boundaries have been crossed.

Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro, despite strong disagreements on foreign policy and Israel, came together for unification discussions - Matt Walsh of The Daily Wire talked about quashing beefs with others on the right.

"This is awakening people's humanity. People are realizing we can't operate at the same level that we've been operating" - Marcus, referencing Einstein's quote about not solving problems at the same level of consciousness that created them.

Even those celebrating Charlie Kirk's death are "impaired, not evil" - Marcus argues they're not seeing things correctly and need help opening their minds and hearts rather than being dehumanized in return.

Beyond Left vs. Right: Unifying on Values

Marcus critiques the framework of "unifying the right against radical leftists" as still operating in the old game of tribal solidarity against a common enemy - an ancient pattern from William Wallace uniting Scottish clans to Genghis Khan uniting Mongol clans.

"Real unification is getting back to a set of shared values and shared principles that we all have, then having all the things you disagree on - all your interpretations of how those principles apply" - Marcus.

The abortion debate exemplifies false binaries: "Are you pro-life or pro-choice? That's a fucked up dilemma because life and choice are both values. You should be pro-life and choice - they're both values you have to weigh in the field of value."

Marcus references Rabbi Marc Gafni's book First Principles and First Values, expanding on Aldous Huxley's Perennial Philosophy project to identify shared human commonalities across all traditions.

"I don't consider myself part of the right" - Marcus. He asks whether people standing for value, love, truth, beauty, and goodness should be excluded from unity movements based on party labels.

Anti-value and anti-life forces do exist - "some people just want to watch the world burn" - but no incarnated person is pure evil, and the fight should exhaust every attempt at transformation before resorting to force.

Charlie Kirk's Humanity Beyond Politics

"Charlie stood for having conversations. He was willing to debate ideas, hear disagreements, and contest with logic" - Marcus, noting Kirk was martyred for his willingness to engage rather than for being correct about everything.

Kirk once told someone who challenged him to a fist fight: "No, I'm not going to do that because we're beyond that. This is not the game we're playing" - refusing violence when arguments fail.

Marcus compares political debate to MMA fighting: "The more intense the fight, the more heartfelt the embrace is after the contest" - champions respect opponents who bring good fights within the rules.

On Kirk's opposition to gay marriage, Marcus explains: "He had a fundamental belief that at the moment of conception, God has decided to place a soul on the trajectory of life, and it's out of our hands" - understanding the premise without agreeing.

"I would be quite confident that if Charlie and I had a long conversation, he would get why I believe what I believe, and I would get why he believes what he believes. We have different premises leading to different conclusions, but neither of us are evil."

Anthroontology: Knowing Value Through the Body

"Anthroontology" combines "anthropos" (body/human) and "ontology" (how we know) - Marcus argues we don't think about value, we feel and know value at somatic, molecular, and etheric levels.

The story of Abraham binding Isaac: A Kabbalist reading suggests the voice telling Abraham not to sacrifice his son came from his own arm - his body knew the truth even when his mind was convinced otherwise.

"We know when the hero makes the right move and when he makes the wrong move" - Marcus on how we innately sense value in stories, unless we've been blinded by indoctrination and cultural conditioning.

"Watiko" is an ancient Native American term for psychic blindness to value - Paul Levy's concept describing how dark forces blind us to innate knowing that lives within us.

Examples of knowing: "When we see videos of the attacker on the train who killed the young Ukrainian woman and nobody responded to help her or neutralize the attacker, we know in our body that was wrong."

"We have to trust that we'll know how to act in the best way, but that requires purifying yourself from shadows and blind spots" - Marcus on the necessity of inner work to access clear knowing.

Perennial Philosophy and Evolving Values

Ravora studied religious studies in college, exploring universalism versus differentiation of values - questioning whether values transcend religious dogma or remain culturally specific.

Advaita Vedanta Hinduism teaches that individual self (atman) and supreme self (Brahman) are one, while Christianity maintains fundamental separation between self and God - seemingly irreconcilable differences.

Christian mystic Meister Eckhart wrote: "The eye in which I see God is the same eye in which he sees me" - pointing to experiential unity similar to Eastern traditions despite orthodox Christian separation theology.

"The moment you claim a dogmatic fixed value, somebody will always come up with an exception" - Marcus. Example: "Tell the truth" fails in Inglourious Basterds when hiding Jews from Nazi hunters.

"Perennialism got a lot right, but what was missing is it's always an evolving perennialism. Values evolve, our understanding evolves. It can't be fixed and frozen in stone" - Marcus.

Dogma exists not just in religions but in plant medicine traditions - example: "If a woman's on her moon she can't sit in the lodge" - Marcus respects the tradition but questions inflexible application.

"Dogma is inflexibility of thought. There are guiding principles so close to truth it would take a wild thought experiment to find contrary examples, but everything is subject to the living breathing moment."

Gnosis: Knowing God Beyond Words

"Tevuah" is a Kabbalist word meaning "sacred humility and audacity" - Marcus embodies this by saying like Carl Jung: "I don't believe in God. I know God."

"The true name of God cannot be spoken. It's known. As soon as you reduce it to words, you've missed it" - Marcus on why mystic texts emphasize ineffability of divine experience.

Jordan Peterson famously refuses to answer "Do you believe in God?" in straightforward ways, frustrating both Christians and atheists who want simple declarations.

"I've found people from every tradition - Father Shaolair, Sufi masters, Kaaj Shidas - who know God. What they're speaking is true, and it exudes out of them as almost wordless understanding."

"When you get into explanation, that's where things get dicey. That's the problem with fundamentalist reading of texts - for every fundamentalist belief, there's a contradictory belief" - Marcus.

Jesus said "I am the father and the father is me" (similar to Atman is Brahman), but also "that which I do you shall do more and greater" - suggesting all have possibility to incarnate the divine.

"The one who knows does not speak" - Taoist principle. Marcus explains truth is a frequency, an energetic something that transcends words, which are subject to endless interpretations.

Democratizing Access to the Divine

"We have to democratize our accessibility to the gnosis of God, to our access to the divine. That's one of the beautiful things about psychedelics" - Marcus, while acknowledging they come with risks.

"You do a 5-MeO-DMT ceremony, you're going to know something you won't forget. You can't describe it - it's ineffable. It all falls short when you put it into words, but you know" - Marcus.

The one unequivocal recommendation Marcus makes is breathwork: "We all need to practice some form of pranayama, the conscious utilization of our breath. Our breath is life."

"Neshima" is the Hebrew word meaning both spirit and breath - "spirit to respiration, spirit and breath, it's all connected" - showing the universal recognition of breath's spiritual significance.

Breathwork forms include Wim Hof style, yogic style, box breathing, or any conscious breathing practice - all provide accessible pathways to connecting with spiritual truth.

Community is essential: "Surrounding yourself with a group of loving individuals who pour love into you, that you care about and love. Even if you just have a pet, a dog that loves you and you feel love."

Mental Health, Healing, and Political Extremism

Ravora asks whether psychedelics, psychotherapy, meditation, and breathwork can help society overcome the mental health crisis that contributes to radical political extremism and assassination attempts.

Ravora shares his personal journey: After graduating high school, "feeling like love was far away and hard to get," he turned to MDMA therapy, psychotherapy, meditation, and breathwork for introspection.

Marcus has done extensive podcast work on these topics with guests like Dr. Dan Engle (author on MDMA therapy), exploring plant medicine, psychedelics, and their therapeutic applications.

Upcoming guests on Ravora's show include L. Kelly, Yonyi Asher, Brett Weinstein, Matt Johnson, and Robin Carhart-Harris - focusing on meditation, psychedelic therapy, and Gen Z mental health challenges.

Marcus's upcoming book You versus Anti-U (2026) explores "dark forces, this inner and exterior antagonist that exists in our world - it's part of the construct, our constant opponent."

Marcus also released a poetry book Love to the Seventh Power (audio book on Amazon) as "a pure expression of my heart and my art" - available now.

Practical Wisdom on Disagreement and Debate

On COVID lockdowns and vaccines: "Most people were coming from a good place - 'I want to protect grandma, I don't want people to die.' That intention is noble, but they were being lied to and not aware of what fear does to thinking."

"When you're placed under that much fear, you're not thinking clearly. There's a righteousness and moral superiority feeding your ego that you're not aware of. But that's okay - I'm here to help you become aware."

On gay marriage: "Marriage is conflated - it's both a religious ceremony and a legislative/IRS thing granting tax benefits. We need to disambiguate the legal benefits from the sacred Christian covenant."

"If couples who are committed get benefits from society and taxes, of course we have to allow gay marriage. But can there be another thing - a sacred Christian covenant with its own rules?"

"I'm really bummed about Charlie Kirk's death because I looked forward to one day having these conversations with him. Most of the time he was contesting against people who weren't thinking very clearly."

"No person is better than another person at the fundamental level. They may do better things objectively for the world, but we're all children of God. You can be better at chess - let's bust out a chessboard and see."