Ryan Holiday hosts author Maria Semple, whose latest novel Go Gentle was selected for Oprah's book club and features Stoic philosophers as characters.

The conversation explores practical applications of ancient Stoic wisdom to modern challenges, particularly the frustration of endless Zoom meetings that became ubiquitous during the pandemic.

Semple shares her detailed protocol for approaching video calls with Stoic principles, while Holiday adds his own strategies for protecting time and maintaining presence during virtual interactions.

Pre-Zoom Stoic Mental Preparation Protocol

Assume good intent from all participants - 'no one's there to hurt you' - Maria

List positive qualities of who you're interacting with to shift into optimism and gratitude

Frame the call as 'I get to do this' rather than obligation - 'If I'm on a conference call with Apple about my Olivia Coleman project, that's pretty fucking cool' - Maria

Practice humility by understanding your place and that 'it's not all about me' - avoid main character energy

Behavioral Guidelines During Video Calls

Decide who you want to be beforehand - 'a reasonable, collaborative, pleasant person to be around' - Maria

Employ specific virtues like talking less, listening more, and not interrupting - following Zeno's 'two ears, one mouth' principle

Be open to where conversations go as fresh experiences, avoiding past patterns and preconceptions

Never feel pressured to decide on the spot - 'always okay to say, let me think about it' - Maria

Time Protection and Meeting Optimization

Walk during all Zoom calls instead of sitting - 'at the very least I got a 45 minute walk' even if the call could have been an email - Ryan

Apply Marcus Aurelius's question from Meditations: 'ask yourself, is this essential?' before agreeing to any meeting

Be willing to leave calls early when your contribution isn't needed - 'I'm like, so dropped off' - Maria

Recognize that saying yes to unnecessary meetings means 'you are not writing novels' or doing your essential work - Ryan

Historical Perspective on Preservation and Legacy

Most of ancient civilizations is gone - 'flesh decays, wood rots, walls fall in, books burn' - yet Marcus Aurelius's Meditations survived because someone preserved it

The Stoic tradition continues with more practitioners today than perhaps ever existed in ancient times combined

What survives historically is 'maddeningly uneven, asymmetrical, and unfair' - some by accident, some by intentional preservation