Neil deGrasse Tyson and Chuck Nice interview Professor John Martinez from UC Santa Barbara, who shared the 2025 Nobel Prize in Physics with Michel Devereye and John Clark for discovering macroscopic quantum tunneling in electrical circuits.

Martinez led Google's superconducting quantum computer development from 2014-2020 before starting his own quantum computing company. The conversation explores how his 1985 thesis research on quantum tunneling in electrical circuits evolved into foundational work for modern quantum computing.

The discussion covers quantum computing fundamentals, from qubits and Cooper pairs to Josephson junctions, while addressing practical applications including encryption breaking, AI integration, and the future of quantum technology. Martinez also references how Mr. Tompkins in Wonderland inspired his co-laureate Michel Devereye, and addresses questions about quantum computing's role in consciousness and simulation theory, including concepts from Dan Brown's Origin.

Nobel Prize Discovery: Quantum Mechanics at Macroscopic Scale

Martinez's Nobel-winning work demonstrated that electrical circuits the size of a dime obey quantum mechanical laws, not just microscopic particles like atoms and molecules.

The discovery involved macroscopic quantum tunneling in superconducting circuits, where electrical variables follow quantum mechanics despite the circuit's visible size.

Martinez explained the 40-year gap between his 1985 research and the Nobel Prize: "A lot of times you don't know if physics is important until you see what it develops into" - John

The research has grown into "a new field" with "a few thousand physicists" working on quantum devices, creating what Martinez calls "a new periodic table" for quantum electronics.

Quantum Tunneling Takes Time: Overturning Physics Dogma

Martinez revealed that quantum tunneling is not instantaneous as previously believed, but takes measurable time - research he calls the "tunneling traversal time" or "T cubed."

"We were able to do this right away. And the funny story is my co-authors and I couldn't decide for a word to call this" - John, explaining why this groundbreaking discovery wasn't published in a major journal.

The time measurement involves connecting superconducting qubits to resistors at varying distances, using speed-of-light delays to determine tunneling duration.

This discovery challenges fundamental assumptions about quantum mechanics, particularly for complex electrical systems where electrons are "connected to other masses, maybe far away."

Quantum Computing Fundamentals: Qubits and Superposition

Qubits can exist in superposition, being both zero and one simultaneously, unlike classical bits that are definitively one or the other.

"You can now build electronic devices that obey quantum mechanics" creating "a bigger periodic table" for quantum device design - John

Quantum computers perform parallel computation: "You get the answer for the zero state, and you get the answer for the one state" simultaneously through superposition - John

Cooper pairs in superconductors consist of electrons with opposite velocities that sum to zero, allowing superconducting current flow without resistance.

Josephson junctions are "two metals separated by a very thin insulating barrier" where electrons can tunnel across, forming the basis of superconducting quantum circuits.

Google's Willow Chip and Quantum Supremacy

Google's Willow quantum chip can perform calculations that would take traditional computers "10 to the 25 years" - vastly longer than the universe's 10 billion year age.

Martinez achieved "quantum supremacy" in 2019, demonstrating quantum computers could solve problems "that would take way longer for a regular computer, a big data center."

Current quantum computers have "100 to 1,000" qubits in superconducting systems, while neutral atom systems are "building thousands of qubits."

The challenge is not just qubit quantity but quality: "Besides the number, you also have to make them good. There's a lot of other things you have to worry about" - John

Encryption Breaking and Quantum-Safe Cryptography

Peter Shor's 1990s algorithm demonstrated quantum computers could potentially break current RSA encryption systems used worldwide.

"All cryptography systems have a finite lifetime" and current systems are "nearing the end of life" due to quantum computing threats - John

The government's NIST agency is actively developing "quantum safe crypto" algorithms to replace vulnerable encryption methods.

Martinez reassures that "writing the software and doing the math" for quantum-safe systems "takes longer" than building the quantum computers themselves.

Future Applications: AI Integration and Consciousness

Martinez envisions quantum computers as "coprocessors to supercomputers" working alongside GPUs and AI language models, not standalone consumer devices.

Quantum computers will likely remain in data centers due to cooling requirements, with users accessing them through terminals "like we all carry our quantum computer on our hip now."

Regarding consciousness emergence in quantum AI systems, Martinez takes a practical approach: "I'm working on building a quantum computer and not what's going to happen in 20 years from now."

For simulation theory, Martinez concludes: "If you believe in simulation theory... whatever is doing the simulation has to have a big quantum computer."

Weather prediction and complex differential equations represent promising applications, though Martinez notes "there's still a lot of debate" about required qubit thresholds.