Hans-Ulrich Obrist, artistic director of the Serpentine Galleries in London, joins Nikolai Tangen, CEO of the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund, to discuss the art of curation, creativity, and connection. Obrist is widely regarded as one of the world's most influential curators, having created groundbreaking exhibitions and maintained an archive of over 4,500 hours of artist interviews spanning nearly four decades.

The conversation explores Obrist's philosophy of curation as 'junction making' - creating unexpected connections between artworks, people, and ideas. From his teenage travels across Europe visiting artist studios to his current role transforming how museums engage with technology and global audiences, Obrist shares insights on building lasting relationships, embracing serendipity, and enabling artistic visions.

Key topics include the evolution of multi-sensory exhibitions, the integration of AI and gaming platforms in museum experiences, the importance of long-term projects that resist short-termism, and what business leaders can learn from artistic practices. The discussion also covers Obrist's unrealized projects, his unique work rhythms including the 'Brutally Early Club,' and his vision for the future of art institutions in an increasingly polarized world.

The Philosophy of Junction Making and Serendipity

Obrist defines curation as 'junction making' - creating unexpected connections between artworks, people, and situations, using exhibitions as a medium to create experiences rather than simply displaying art.

The key to interesting experiences begins with listening to artists in their studios, understanding what they haven't been able to realize, and shifting the art world to make their dreams possible.

Serendipity drives major projects through chain reactions rather than master plans - Obrist's handwriting project emerged from separate conversations with Umberto Eco about saving handwriting and poet Etel Adnan about the importance of listening.

Long-term thinking counters short-termism: 'Some of my exhibitions have been evolving for more than 30 years' - the 'Do It' project has artists write instructions that people worldwide can interpret for 33 years.

Multi-Sensory Exhibitions and Technology Integration

Multi-sensory exhibitions dramatically increase visitor engagement - Peter Doig's exhibition combined painting with music, creating a listening space where people returned daily and spent hours instead of seconds.

The Serpentine's partnership with Fortnite reached 150 million visitors in two weeks, more than any physical exhibition, with teenagers bringing parents to see the physical space.

Video games engage over 3 billion people globally, making them a lead medium that visual artists increasingly work with through mixed reality installations combining physical and digital components.

David Hockney's iPad paintings demonstrate how established artists can embrace technology - his 'A Year in Normandy' was created outdoors with an iPad like Impressionists painting 'plein air,' then printed as a panoramic installation inspired by the Bayeux Tapestry.

The 4,500-Hour Artist Interview Archive

Since 1986, Obrist has recorded over 4,500 hours of artist conversations, inspired by Lives of the Artists by Vasari and Interviews with Francis Bacon by David Sylvester.

Studio visits happen daily - calculating 40 years at one visit per day equals approximately 14,600 artist encounters, creating the foundation for long-term relationships and repeat interviews.

Recurring questions include unrealized projects, advice to young practitioners (following Letters to a Young Poet by Rilke), mentorship experiences, and how artists connect to other practitioners.

The archive reveals patterns across thousands of conversations, with potential for AI analysis to uncover connections between artists and ideas that weren't previously apparent.

Unrealized Projects and Institutional Innovation

Unrealized projects reveal what practitioners want to do 'outside the box' - artists often have dreams beyond their daily routine of biennials, gallery shows, and museum exhibitions.

Obrist's major unrealized project is creating a new Black Mountain College - an interdisciplinary school where art, architecture, music, and science converge, now being developed with Laurene Powell Jobs at the former San Francisco Art Institute.

The Serpentine added new departments for technology and ecology, recognizing that museums need to evolve beyond traditional structures to address contemporary challenges and opportunities.

The Pavilion program has launched architectural careers - Smiljan Radić won the Pritzker Prize after his Serpentine pavilion, while Frida Escobedo and Lina Ghotmeh secured major international commissions following their pavilions.

Global Art Networks and Local Anchoring

Contemporary art now operates through a 'polyphony of centers' rather than a single dominant location, with artists able to work anywhere and create their own structures and initiatives.

The most interesting practices follow Édouard Glissant's concept of 'mondialité' from Sartorius and his other works - enabling global dialogue while remaining deeply locally anchored, resisting homogenizing globalization.

Obrist reads Glissant every morning as a ritual to think about how Serpentine can contribute to mondialité through programming that connects globally while respecting local contexts.

Private foundations have dramatically increased opportunities for artists, creating new dynamics in the art world through interdisciplinary centers that connect art to ecology, design, and architecture.

Business Lessons from Artistic Practice

Artists excel at pivoting and working with the unknowable, skills increasingly relevant as predicting the future becomes more difficult across all industries.

The 1960s concept of Artist Placement Group proposed putting artists in governmental structures and corporate boards - 'I think the time has come that we should realize that' - Obrist.

Museum programming requires balancing well-known artists shown from unexpected angles with emerging practitioners, creating discovery opportunities while maintaining visitor engagement.

Reinvention happens through openness and collaboration: 'When we do a project with an artist, we are no longer the same person afterwards. We have to allow to be changed by it' - Obrist.

Unconventional Work Rhythms and Productivity Systems

Obrist experimented with Balzac's rhythm (50 coffees daily) for six months and Da Vinci's rhythm (15-minute naps every three hours) before settling on six hours of sleep with a night assistant.

The night assistant works 10:30-11:30 PM, handling correspondence and transcriptions overnight, creating a 24-hour productivity cycle where work is completed by morning.

The 'Brutally Early Club' solves scheduling problems by meeting at 6 AM when 'nobody can say they have a prior schedule,' attracting nearly 100 participants for improvised coffee meetings.

Relaxation comes through disconnected studio visits with artists, reading extensively, jogging while listening to podcasts, and liberating time for focused conversations.